Show Notes

On this inaugural episode of Talk Dying to Me, host Dr. Lauren Daley sits down with her sister, Alysa, to talk candidly about their mom’s death for the first time. Lauren is a palliative care doctor, long time griever, and believer that having a relationship with death is the secret to living a more fulfilled life.

 In 1996, Lauren and Alyssa were living an idyllic life with two loving parents, until their mom died in a car accident. They begin their conversation by reflecting on the moment they realized something terrible had happened. Lauren describes the scene as family and friends filled the house with food and sympathetic stares. Initially they assumed her mom was hurt, but okay. Soon after, their dad came home and broke the news to them that she had died.

 Lauren goes on to ask Alysa what she remembers about their mother. Alysa says she remembers her mother’s smell and Lauren recalls it was classic Vaseline Intensive Care Lotion. She’s tried to find it again, but they don’t make the same smell anymore. Alysa describes her mother as firm but kind and Lauren adds that she was a young, beautiful school teacher who loved Star Trek and always rooted for the underdog.

The night of the accident, Alysa and Lauren describe a sense of confusion, not knowing how they were supposed to act, what they could or couldn’t say, or if they had to be sad from now on. Lauren describes a sense of chaos. The days following their mother’s death were a blur, with flashing moments Lauren says are impossible to forget. Their father vomiting in the bathroom. Grandparent’s offering support. A strong memory for both women is a story shared by their aunt about water beetles, a metaphor for passing on to the next life.

Today, Lauren and Alysa grieve for the adults who held their world together in the aftermath of their mother’s death. The people who arrived to sit with them and waited for the news that would change their lives. Their father, who became physically ill in the face of overwhelming grief, and their grandparents who lost their only child. Lauren describes childhood grief as “grief by a thousand cuts.” Explaining that as you grow older, you also gain the capacity to see your tragedy with new eyes.

Tags: death, dying, sisters, grief, tragedy, loss

Episode 002 - Let’s Start At The Very Beginning… (Part II)

Do you remember the first time you saw a dead body? Lauren and Alysa were just 6 and 10 years old, and the body happened to belong to their mother. In this episode they take a deep dive into the experience of seeing their mom after she died, as well as some of the more mystic moments they shared in the days, months and years following her death. They also explore how living with grief has transformed their lives in countless, beautiful ways.

Show Notes

On this episode of Talk Dying to Me, host Dr. Lauren Daley is again joined by her sister Alysa to continue their conversation about their mother’s tragic early passing. This time, they begin at the funeral parlour where they saw their mother’s corpse. Alysa recalls her mother looking like Snow White lying in the casket. Both Alysa and Lauren describe an experience of feeling like their mother was at peace, she was okay, and nothing bad could happen to her again. Lauren describes the highly confusing feeling of seeing her mother, and wanting to be held by her, but knowing it was just her body. It was traumatic, but she's glad she saw it, because she knew her mother wasn’t in that casket, that her spirit was with them.  

Lauren and Alysa talk about the emptiness they felt, even as their lives filled with motherly figures. The everyday school talk of moms and parents was painful for them, and Alysa recalls a childhood friend who scolded anyone for bringing up the topic of mothers around her. Overall though, they didn’t talk about it. Lauren theorizes that this is because if they’d allowed themselves to feel all the grief that was inside them, it would have been overwhelming. Later, they experienced the dread of having to tell others they didn’t have a mom. The awkward energy rolling off someone who doesn’t know what to say in the face of your loss makes the grieving person feel worse, Lauren says.

Alysa explains that while grief and loss are serious and sad, they’re also a lot of other things. Lauren expands that grief is layered, and not just good or bad. The experience of loss is dynamic and a masterful teacher. Alysa says she’s a much more thoughtful and resilient person because of her mother’s passing, but she also thinks about death and tragedy more than the average person might. She keeps track of the times she feels like her mother’s spirit is around her in a journal. Our cells are made up of energy, and Lauren wonders aloud where that energy goes when we die since it cannot be destroyed. She theorizes that perhaps it continues on, existing on a different plane, and she says she’s felt her mother’s energy around her throughout the years.

Their mother left behind relationships full of kindness and love, and Alysa wants to be remembered similarly. She says there’s a lot of hope that can come from death. She may not have as deeply considered what comes after and the hope that she does for life’s real purpose.

Tags: death, dying, sisters, grief, relationships, loss, depression, hope, afterlife

Episode 003 - Monica and Me

Dying is one thing, but what if what you're dying from has the potential to change who you are in the process? This is exactly the struggle Ashley faces as she lives life with a slow growing brain tumour in her left frontal lobe she calls "Monica." On this episode, Ashley explores her journey to self acceptance in the face of an illness that threatens who she is and how she shows up in the world.

Show Notes

On this episode of Talk Dying to Me, host Dr. Lauren Daley sits down with her friend and colleague, Ashley Doty. Ashley is a palliative care nurse who loves dogs and running. Oh, and she has a brain tumour she calls Monica.

The episode begins as Ashley recalls a day at work where she was extremely tired to the point of taking a nap on her last break. She came home to an unloaded dishwasher which caused her to pick a fight with her husband. To cool off, she took the dog for a walk, and called her mother. When she returned home, she made up with her husband and headed to bed. This is the last thing she remembers before being transported to the hospital because of a serious seizure. It was then she found out she had a tumour in her left frontal lobe. Ashley is naturally laid back, care free and easy going, but the tumour made her uptight, high strung and a little anal retentive. It risked turning her into a different person, so she decided to cut it out.

Ashley’s doctors recommended brain surgery to confirm the diagnosis and remove the tumour, so she put together an advanced care directive. Lauren stresses the importance of identifying a person to make care decisions and communicate with them your wishes. Her surgery went well, and in her hospital stay she found that being nursed as a nurse was an incredibly strange experience. For Ashley, the most uncomfortable part of her stay was when she had to be helped in the shower. Her recovery went well, she went home, had her staples removed, and ran a 10K four weeks later. But she did not talk about the tumour, and after she went back to work and did some research on her own, she learned her tumour isn't curable. It would grow back. The surgeries needed to resect the tumour will chip away at her frontal lobe, and potentially the essence of who she is.

This tumour will likely be the cause of her death and it’s changed her life in drastic ways. Not only has she had to come to terms with her tumour and cancer diagnosis, her marriage also ended. Soon after her divorce, she learned that Monica was back and she would need another surgery. Since it is slow growing, she chose to put it off for a while and invest her time in living her life fully. Ashley explains that her choice to embrace herself and life isn’t just because she knows she’ll die, but also because her tumour threatens to change who she is and how she shows up in the world. She wants people to remember the good parts of her.

Tags: death, dying, brain tumor, palliative care, grief, relationships, self acceptance, cancer

Episode 004 - This Is What Dying Looks Like

How does a body die? On this episode of Talk Dying to Me, Lauren sits down with two palliative care nurses in attempt to demystify the dying process. They talk about what dying looks like, what we know to be true about this important transition we will all one day face, and some of the less tangible parts of dying.

Show Notes

On this episode of Talk Dying to Me, host Dr. Lauren Daley sits down with palliative care nurses Lara and Amanda to demystify the dying process. Collectively, Lara and Amanda have been at the bedside for hundreds of deaths and are well-versed in what to expect near the end of life, particularly when it comes to expected death caused by serious or chronic diseases. Lauren, Lara, and Amanda focus on these expected deaths as they discuss what we know and what we don’t understand about death. They begin by discussing the parts of death we know well: the physical changes.

Death can be a very traumatizing experience because of all of the unknowns, but talking about what dying looks like before you have to face it can be incredibly helpful. Amanda compares death to birth. In birth, you labour, there are stages, and it’s a process. The same is true of death. There are stages of active dying that are typically marked by predictable, largely irreversible changes. People that are nearing death often stop eating or drinking. They also may experience a decrease in urine output, fluctuating temperatures, skin mottling, and respiratory changes. These changes can be difficult, but they are often harder for the family to experience than for the person who is dying.

Death can be overwhelmingly sad and tragic, but there can also be incredible beauty in those final moments. Lauren asks Lara and Amanda how they would describe being in the final moments of a person’s life with their loved ones. Laura says “profound” is the first word that comes to mind. In one of her most profound experiences, they were able to grant all of the wishes of the loved ones, and there was such relief and joy that they felt in that space. When the person did die, Lara says it felt like a re-birth. Amanda also shares some words she would use to describe that space, including “quiet,” “peaceful,” and “transformative.” She feels privileged to share in the space, and describes a warm, comical, and joyful moment she witnessed as a woman passed away surrounded by her family.

There can be unexpected beauty in final moments, but what happens after a body dies? Lara and Amanda explain the final physical exams they conduct, how they prepare the bodies for transport, and how the families are involved in that process. They also discuss how they feel as they move through the process. While these physical steps after death are understood, the rest is unknown. Lauren, Lara, and Ashley share their experiences with death and their theories about what happens when the body dies. Lara’s favourite theory is that the body is just a vehicle, and a spirit of some sort transcends the physical. Based on the deaths Lauren has seen, she agrees with Lara. Medicine can’t explain everything, and she doesn’t find it difficult to exist in both realms. Lauren closes by expressing that if these end-of-life experiences are peaceful, warm, and intimate, wherever we’re going can’t be that bad.

Tags: death, dying, palliative care, nursing, expected death, beauty, hope, afterlife

Episode 005 - When The World Stood Still

What if a week was deleted from your life? That is exactly what it felt like when 42 year old Jaclyn Robinson was placed on a ventilator for 8 days after contracting COVID-19. On this episode, she describes the harrowing experience of surviving a critical illness, and how her life has changed after coming so close to death.

Show Notes

On this episode of Talk Dying to Me, host Dr. Lauren Daley has a conversation with 42-year-old Jaclyn Robinson, a wife, mother, and nurse based in British Columbia. Jackie shares with Lauren about the day the world stood still - the day back in mid-March of 2020 when the COVID-19 crisis in North America was ramping up and a global pandemic was declared - and the challenging days that followed.

In March 2020, Jackie’s life was relatively normal. She was married to her husband Kirk, her love and life partner since their whirlwind college romance some 20 years before. The two were parents to three girls: 15-year-old Ellie and 12-year-old twins Mia and Charlotte. The family was planning a spring break trip to Palm Springs, and was nearly ready to leave. However, as the impact of COVID-19 spread across the globe, the Canadian government imposed a travel ban, the vacation was cancelled, and Jackie found herself needing to both comfort her disappointed daughters and calm their fears of COVID-19. Of course, since the family was young and healthy, they would be fine even if they were to contract the virus.

Less than 24 hours later, Kirk began to feel ill. On Tuesday, March 17th Jackie became sick as well. Soon after, Jackie tested positive for COVID-19. She and Kirk isolated in their bedroom, the girls experienced more mild illness, and Kirk became more ill before turning a corner. Scarcely had Kirk turned toward recovery when Jackie’s symptoms worsened. Her fever and pain raged, and her blood oxygen level plummeted to 67%. A kind paramedic was the only bright spot on the horrible night when Jackie was ushered - alone and in respiratory distress - into an ambulance. Jackie was embarking on what would prove to be a two-week nightmare. She landed in the ICU facing worsening symptoms and isolation.

Eventually, Jackie’s case demanded she be placed on a ventilator. She spent eight delirious days ventilated, with her partial memories revealing what she describes as an assault on her body. Her lungs collapsed, she wrenched against her breathing tube and was physically restrained to curb her agitation. She came in and out of consciousness while under sedation. Her family, in crisis mode, simply waited until Jackie at last was taken off the ventilator. Even then, the hard days of treatment were not over, and Jackie had to continue to endure until her eventual discharge. Through this time, she found solace by turning from the chaos of the hospital and fixing her attention on a tree outside her window.

Upon Jackie’s release, the bliss of family reunion was joined with the physical and emotional backlash of her experience, including the PTSD she developed through her ICU experience. She and her family have helped each other to heal and slowly moved into a greater sense of normalcy. Jackie’s forced pause has made her grateful for simple pleasures, and even as she continues to struggle, she remembers returning to the hospital to see her tree bearing the leaves of new, fresh life, and this gives her hope. Her story is one of many tied to the ongoing pandemic, and is a reminder to feel the weight of all the lives impacted.

Tags: dying, COVID-19, ICU, ventilator, PPE, psychiatrist, PTSD, anxiety, healing, tree, grief

Episode 006 - A Force of Nature

How do you prepare your kids for a life without you? Megan Roberts grapples with this question each day as she navigates motherhood while living with stage IV cancer.

Show Notes

In Progress

Episode 007 - Kids Say The Darndest Things… About Death

Kids are inquisitive, uninhibited and brutally honest. So who better to tackle a taboo subject like death? On this episode, Lauren talks death with her 3 and 5 year old nephews to hear their take on a subject adults often shy away from. Then, childhood grief expert Andrea Warnick shares some guiding principles on how to support our kids through the harder parts of being human.

Show Notes

In Progress